ISG: Cremation Diamonds

Very short-sighted arm-chair reporting Mr. James.

Cremation Diamonds are a viable offering that many people, not just in the United States but worldwide, have staked their livelihoods and reputations on with respect to a burial choice for their loved ones. You clearly have your opinion, however I cannot stand back and let your callous, disrespectful remarks towards both the memorial industry and this product choice go without a response. And before you say you’re only against Cremation Diamonds and not the industry, you can’t, as many memorial properties offer these diamonds often at the demand of their clients.

I looked into Cremation Diamonds after my own grandfather’s death not with skepticism, but with an interest to do something more meaningful with his remains than just scattering them, burying them or leaving them in an urn to pass to my children who had no relationship with him.

As a result of significant consideration, work and time spent in developing the offering for Canada, I am the President of Remembrance Diamonds Corporation; the Canadian partner to Algordanza AG of Switzerland which you reference in
your article – unjustly tying them in to all companies that perform this service. I can only speak for Algordanza, as I became involved with them only after fully researching the company (beyond the arm-chair) and visiting their facilities in
Switzerland; overseeing the steps in the laboratory process start to finish. I am here to serve our Canadian clients with utmost compassion, dignity and respect; things your article certainly lacks.

You don’t know what you don’t know, Robert. While in Switzerland I had a diamond created from my grandfather’s ashes, and until you know and understand the process thoroughly, and more importantly how each individual company operates, you should keep your full judgment of said companies to yourself.

Some of your issues worth attending:

Locations where diamonds are produced – Where does it say these diamonds need to be created in a particular country? Where are cars made? Or clothing? Jewelry? Many items are made overseas – China, Japan, Korea or closer like Mexico; so what? In the case of Algordanza, for our Canadian clients, the ashes are shipped to Switzerland. If the client chooses, they’re welcome to take them to Switzerland to the facility themselves as I did. Do they have machines in Switzerland? Yes. In other countries too? Yes. So what?

Locations where a company’s headquarters is located – In our case clients order through our website or through memorial companies. A traditional bricks and mortar workspace in Canada isn’t required as ashes are shipped directly to Switzerland from the individual or the memorial company. Screen prints won’t find what isn’t supposed to be there in the first place. Visit the operation Robert, not the administration office.

Where the domain is owned and operated – I live and work in Canada. I transferred my domains, including my Canadian ones, to GoDaddy because a colleague told me they’re great. You imply that this may be something to be wary of. The world’s a global marketplace Robert. People and companies will continue to buy Web services in whatever country they wish, often where they’ll receive the best price and service

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just like anything else they buy; it doesn’t make for a devious conspiracy theory.

What you get for your money [/B]– There is a big difference between buying a diamond at a jewelry store and what goes into what’s involved in orchestrating what’s necessary to package, send, track, manufacture, return, customs clear and eventually present back to an awaiting family a Memorial Diamond. It passes through various staff between the memorial company, Algordanza and my company to complete the process. As with many unique product offerings, I believe you get what you pay for. Some people may not, and that’s ok too; they generally don’t order one. You also can’t compare pricing to Gemesis as they are completely different offerings – with all due respect to them, dealing with the aforementioned process is something they don’t have to contend with when they produce their stones.

Minuscule amounts of carbon (or minute traces of your loved one’s carbon) – The sole purpose of offering a diamond of this type is to use the carbon from a loved one’s remains. Without it, it’s true there would be no point. The fact is there is enough carbon, it is a part of a loved one, and that’s why it’s done. In the case of my grandfather, the diamond size in comparison to the amount of his ashes, or the size he was as a man, is small – but the beauty of the stone and the feeling of joy I have carrying a part of him with me is massive – and that’s what counts (for me and others like me). I do wear it with pride. Some people carry a small portion of cremation ash embedded in jewelry as a memorial option; another great idea. I certainly don’t fault anyone’s freedom to choose what’s best for them. (Yikes! They aren’t all about the money after all.)

Incidentally, Algordanza carries ISO 9001 certification which was also overlooked in your ‘investigation’. I took the extra step of having my grandfather’s diamond analyzed and certified by the Canadian Gemological Laboratory in Vancouver
(thanks Branko, it was a pleasure meeting you). With no knowledge ahead of time of the diamond’s origin, they easily determined it was laboratory grown, and noted the presence of Boron within; a common element and identifier in cremation diamonds as it comes through from cremation ashes. I specifically chose to partner with Algordanza because they do not attempt to alter the ashes through the process to produce different colored diamonds; the result is that all the diamonds come out light blue to blue.

We invite you at anytime to see the facility in person in Switzerland Robert. Perhaps a more thorough account up close will help you understand why many people worldwide see this as a memorial choice worth making. As for your “To make a complete diamond you would have to cut off grandma’s head…”, clearly Robert, it’s obvious you are not the best individual to comment or offer advice to the bereaved. The insensitivity within your article, along with your lack of thorough investigation of all companies you choose to name, only proves you should stick with what you know. I can only assume you at least know about that.

Rene de Diego
Remembrance Diamonds Corporation
Vancouver, BC
www.remembrancediamonds.com

Well come on then, enlighten us Rene. Give us more than rhetoric or stock images to make the case a little more convincing.
Anyone can throw ash into the mix when making synthetic gems of any kind, that doesn't mean the result is made from the ashes.

Surely the onus is on the manufacturers to prove that they can are are doing what they claim. Consumers can and will express their doubts as to the legitimacy of the entire process when manufacturers refuse to disclose details and hide behind a cloak of secrecy. Since there are now several companies claiming to produce cremation diamonds, the process can hardly be called proprietary information. The cost of the equipment alone makes it unlikely that your trade secrets will be lost for providing just enough information to allow us to see if the claims are feasible.

We do not need more press releases or meaningless references to ISO certification that prove nothing. Cold hard facts and scientific proof is required to make your case.

Information like how much carbon can be extracted from the ashes directly correlated with the amount needed for a specific sized diamond would go a long way to proving that the process is legitimate. So far, all the questions have been ignored and all that has been provided is stock photos of diamond presses that could be used to make synthetics. I doubt anyone doubts that the diamonds are being manufactured, what they want proved is that they are being made using the remains.

The presence of Boron proves nothing but that it is there. There are many boron-doped synthetics on the market which have nothing to do with human remains.

Not to sound insensitive, but it would also be interesting to know just how much of the ash is from the remains and how much of it is remnants of the coffin.

I'm quite sure that if the pertinent questions can be, and are willingly, answered, much of the doubt will disappear and your enterprise will only benefit.

Here are a couple quotes from the Wikepedia article on cremation.

The cremation occurs in a crematory (or crematorium), consisting of one or more cremator furnaces or cremation retorts for the ashes. A cremator is an industrial furnace capable of generating temperatures of 870–980 °C (1,598–1,796 °F) to ensure disintegration of the corpse.

The box containing the body is placed in the retort and incinerated at a temperature of 760 to 1150 °C (1400 to 2100 °F). During the cremation process, a large part of the body (especially the organs) and other soft tissue are vaporized and oxidized by the intense heat; gases released are discharged through the exhaust system. The process usually takes 90 minutes to two hours, with larger bodies taking longer time.

Cremated remains are mostly dry calcium phosphates with some minor minerals, such as salts of sodium and potassium. Sulfur and most carbon is driven off as oxidized gases during the process, although a relatively small amount of carbon as carbonate may remain.

Out of the 4 to 6 lbs of ash resulting from the cremation process, only a very small amout could be used in the process to make the diamond. Of that amount I suspect that the amount of C in the ash is indeed very small probabaly less than a thousandth of a carat. So virtually all of the C in say a 1 ct. diamond is from other sources. I'm not sure what calcium phosphate would do to a diamond, but suspect it would greatly affect the quality, both clarity and color. How much of Granddad is actually in the diamond? Very little. As I said in my previous, now missing, comment, I probably have more atoms in my body that were once part of Julius Ceasar, then the number of atoms from Granddad in the diamond supposedly made from his ashes. If I am wrong I challange the industry to prove it, not with retoric, but with solid, independent scientific proof. All we are asking for is full disclosure by the industry, not more retoric or unsubstantiated claims.

Thanks again to the ISG Community posters for the continued dialogue regarding cremation diamonds. I’m not sure why some of our initial exchanges posted here were removed, but as these last couple of entries were somewhat technical, I felt it proper to include our partners at Algordanza in Switzerland to comment. The responses below are from Veit Brimer, Algordanza’s chairman.

Mr. Brimer’s response:

“To Lukeness – First please accept my apologies regarding my english. I'm not a native speaker, although I’ll try to express myself as clearly as possible.

I'm the chairman of Algordanza Inc. from Ems in Switzerland, I'll try to answer your questions and claims as we take them all seriously. Please understand that I speak for Algordanza, and I'm not able to talk about other companies and what they are doing, nor should we compared as such.

You first claim is not correct. In our early stages of development, we tried to mix ashes with carbon, the diamond growth was hardly achievable and the results were devastating. The heterogeneous structure of the ashes simply suppressed the growing process, which in general is not that easy to accomplish, even with very pure material.

You are somewhat right about ISO certification. This does of course not prove the growing process in itself, it just proves that administration and production follow certain rules.

Please let me remind you, we have not issued photos of our presses here.

We offer everyone to visit our premises, customers, interested parties, media, officials, you name it. We offer all our clients to watch the entire process, or, to have a notary public watch the process for them. Notary publics in Europe I believe may be a bit different than in the U.S. They represent the public, are state accredited and thus the official instruments they issue are a kind of juristic persons of their own kind. A notarial instrument is thus very worthy in Europe. We had a notary public watch the whole process and issue such a public instrument about one process we did as an answer to the question if our product is what we claim. This instrument is available at anytime.

We do not dope the diamond with boron. There is a tiny amount of boron left after the extraction process of the carbon which Rene pointed out in his response. Our diamonds, which we do not treat by any means for coloring, come out mostly blueish, but we have clear ones as well.

To BorderReiver - First, according to our experience the cremation process results in 6.5 to 9 lbs. But this is not important though.

Your assumption of the relevant carbon is not accurate. Please give me a few lines to explain:

C+O2=CO2, this is correct. The idea cremation is a method destroying all carbon existing is not. Cremation is a process invented to safely store the remains without compromising groundwater and health of residents in succession. If the coffin is very small, the cremation process is a lot shorter, in order to maintain enough ashes for the funeral ceremony. In normal cases you will find around 1.5 - 3% of remaining carbon in the ashes. In the latter case it may be as much as 20%.

Honestly, I have no idea how you come to the conclusion the carbon concentration in the ashes is only one thousands of a carat. That would be 0.0002 grams. Where do you get this number from?

We state that we need around 500gr of ashes in order to grow a diamond. Assuming the carbon concentration is 1% this results in 7.5gr carbon. According to our extraction method we achieve around 85% of that amount, somewhat more than 6grs.

The idea, using just ashes to grow a diamond is somewhat funny, sorry. Of course you need to extract the carbon, this is done by an acids and bases method, which is public domain. We only needed to adapt it this way due to our limited supply. As you know better than me, a diamond consists of 99.9x % carbon. Calcium phosphates would just hinder the growing process.

As you see, we take your challenge. I may ask you to limit your questions to facts and not ask sarcastic questions.

We disclose to anyone all that is needed to gain trust in what we are doing, as long as it's not disclosing our corporate secrets as they pertain to other companies attempting to offer this type of service.

A word to growing diamonds. Diamonds are grown, at least in our case, using an HPHT (High Pressure High Temperature) method. The gained graphite is put into a growing cell (which consists of some 20 different parts) along with a metal catalyst and a seed crystal. The dimension of this growth cell is very limited due to the enormous pressure needed (approx 50'000bar). The container is able to hold less than 2grs of carbon. The resulting rough diamond cannot exceed 4ct, the space is not allowing more.”

I echo Mr. Brimer’s point regarding the image of diamond presses often referenced in the responses being associated to Algordanza. Algordanza has never used these images or ‘stock’ images of any kind. He and I both have said that anyone is free to visit their facility to see their process first hand should the supporting documentation we provide need further substantiation from the buying public.

Sincerely,

Rene

Your willingness to continue this dialogue with us speaks volumes about your faith in this company Rene, and I applaud you for being brave enough to continue to enlighten us, and to correct any misconceptions. I'm finding this whole thread to be very informative; especially Mr Brimer's response. Please thank him for us for the time it took him to clarify things about the carbon in the ashes, as well as address some of our other concerns. You may indeed have found a company that really does incorporate loved ones' ashes into a diamond, and if they are doing what they advertise I'd be willing to refer people looking for such a product to Algordanza, especially since they seem to have good customer relations, which is of the utmost importance when people are grieving.

I look forward to reading whatever else comes up in this thread, and apologize for the missing posts. Seems to happen here as I noticed one of mine was gone, too, and I'm not sure why. But thank you for your persistence in addressing all of our concerns. You have done an excellent job so far and not let some peoples' sarcasm deter you or alter the tone of your responses. Kudos!

Thank you Rene, I must echo Crystal Star's comments.
I think the posts disappearing is largely due to the new forum, new software, new hosts etc etc.

Hi Rene,

Sorry for the delay in answering but it appears that you have been in good hands. We did lose some posts when we had to change some of our new forums program. I apologize for any inconvenience on that. It was not intentional if we lost anyone's post. Regarding your specific posts above.....

What I find most interesting about all of you Cremation Diamonds folks is that you usually start out with a personal attack of some type, such as your "armchair reporting" comment about my work. You seem to have ignored the prima facie evidence and years of research into your product that was presented in my report, as you folks usually do. But notwithstanding that bit of minutia, here are my responses to you.

Nothing. I have nothing to respond to you. You have simply posted up a HUGE amount of rhetoric that is without substance or merit.

The questions still remain:

* How can you claim to allow a customer to just dial up the diamond color and size, when the major diamond synthesis labs say this cannot be done?

* Why is your US office out in a field outside of Houston, with a land line phone that is located in another county, all hosted by a website owned from an address in a barrio in Mexico City?

* Why are your diamonds over 100% higher in price that those of other lab created diamonds of the same quality and size or even better?

* How can you claim to make diamonds from cremation ashes when the science says that its not possible?

I have read your posts above, and quite honestly......its a lot of smoke and mirrors. You have not addressed any real issues or questions.

Regarding your invitation to Switzerland, I accept. You will do yourself well to let me follow someone's cremation, to ashes, to your plant, and follow these throughout the diamond making process, and to the delivery.

Let me know when you are ready. I accept your offer. Let me know when the cremation is going to be held, and I will let you know where to send my ticket.

The issue is yours to prove. Let's do it!

Robert

As a follow up to this, I want to stress that I have been working with lab created diamonds since the mid 1990's when Tom Chatham and the Russians were first successful with creating white, gem quality lab created diamonds. As most of your know, we have one of the very first of those that Tom sold to me as one of the first to receive one of these. A photograph of that first lab created gem quality colorless diamond is in the ISG course notes.

We have lab created diamonds here in the ISG lab, and have close communications established with the major diamond production laboratories.

According to the people who actually make lab created diamonds....The claims that the cremation diamond people make are bogus.

The cremation diamond people cannot just dial up as many diamonds as someone wants of a particular size and color using ashes or anything else.

The cremation diamond people cannot....and I want to stress this....they have not and cannot actually prove their claims.

We hear a lot of flowing rhetoric and wonderful sounding generalities, but no hard facts.

The cremation diamond scam is just that. Its a hoax.

If the cremation diamond people can prove otherwise, they need to do so. If not, then they should be viewed with the same scrutiny as the Tibet andesine people.

Just to clarify my position. If Rene wishes to reply with some hard evidence I am all ears.

Robert

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence!

BorderReiver,

That is without a doubt the most profound overview of this whole situation.

Well said! Well said, indeed!

Robert

Thank you. That is also my statement to the UFOlogists and the Ghost Hunters. So far I have seen no extraordinary evidence from them. Also applies to the Tibet andesine claims. So much of what passes for science today is based on opinion and supposition.

Nice to hear from you Robert. So here we go, I guess…

First, the remark regarding ‘arm-chair reporting’ was hardly a ‘personal attack’. I was simply pointing out your article’s contents contained nothing but the appearance of sitting at your computer, gathering screen shots and looking up ‘cremation diamonds’ and companies that claim to provide memorial diamonds. In addition, using an expression like ‘you Cremation Diamond folks’ once again shows you didn’t learn much about differentiating between the various companies - I suppose if I browsed the internet, collected what I felt like referencing, and then wrote an article citing that the reliability and ability of all gemologists were equal, it wouldn’t bother you.

You also do not seem to read with much retention. Look at your four points in relation to my specific posts:

“How can you claim to allow a customer to just dial up the diamond color and size…” I’ll repeat what was written above for you: I specifically chose to partner with Algordanza because they do not attempt to alter the ashes through the process to produce different colored diamonds; the result is that all the diamonds come out light blue to blue.

“Why is your US office out in a field outside of Houston, with a land line phone that is located in another county…” Once again, for you: As a result of significant consideration, work and time spent in developing the offering for Canada, I am the President of Remembrance Diamonds Corporation; the Canadian partner to Algordanza.

So to clarify, I’m not the U.S. partner for Algordanza. Interestingly enough, it was a Canadian gemologist that pointed me to this forum – thinking your community might benefit from further dialogue on specifically Algordanza’s cremation diamonds.

“Why are your diamonds over 100% higher in price that those of other lab created diamonds…” Again: There is a big difference between buying a diamond at a jewelry store and what goes into what’s involved in orchestrating what’s necessary to package, send, track, manufacture, return, customs clear and eventually present back to an awaiting family a Memorial Diamond. It passes through various staff between the memorial company, Algordanza and my company to complete the process. As with many unique product offerings, I believe you get what you pay for. Some people may not, and that’s ok too; they generally don’t order one. You also can’t compare pricing to Gemesis as they are completely different offerings – with all due respect to them, dealing with the aforementioned process is something they don’t have to contend with when they produce their stones.

And lastly, in the case of what specifically Algordanza claims, you haven’t provided any hard evidence to the contrary. You have ignored the technical responses provided by Mr. Brimer, Algordanza’s chairman. The challenge remains for you to observe the process. However, I must say the fact that you wish to begin with overseeing a cremation lacks a certain tact and respect for someone’s deceased loved one (I certainly wouldn’t refer you to be involved with any of my clients). In addition, the thought that you feel you are deserving to have your way paid to do what you should have done in the first place to properly write this article is laughable; you simply owe it to your community to make the trip on your own (as I originally did when I didn't have complete information regarding the company and their claims), not to have it funded by Algordanza or anyone else.

Robert has always struck me as a low maintenance traveler. The conditions at the sunstone mines don’t exactly remind one of a Four Seasons. If I were running this company, the price of a coach ticket and a few nights stay at a hostel would be nothing compared to the value of independent verification by a professional gemologist.

Good point Marty. If the company has nothing to hide the cost of having an internationally recognized gemologist give an independent verification would be small compared to the value of the report and the good will. Companies often do this to get endorsements from industry experts. They consider it an investment and good marketing.

Well, I was going to tell Robert that he is invited to my cremation and then he could take my ashes to Algordanza and I'd pay for the synthetic diamond, the plane tickets and hotel room....all for ISG research.

Problem is...you'd have to wait another 30 years at least...

The thing is Robert does know what he knows..and this is one of the things he knows. I'd stake my ashes on it.

Rosemary

In the interest of keeping the ISG forum posters informed, I did touch base with Mr. Brimer once again to see if he had some time to make any further comment on some of the latest discussion. Here are the remarks if interested:

First a little more on the technology. Mr. Brimer remarked: “Upon starting our business we worked with Russian scientists and Russian technology, the latter until now. The problem of this technology is that it's not very stable; due to age and poor controllability. This is why we started some 3 years ago with the development of a new, stable and controllable press, the one you (Rene) have seen.”

To once again try to explain the issue of color: “We have never advertised we grow as many diamonds someone wants in what color they desire. We inform our customers that our diamonds are IIb, thus they fall between white and dark blue. Simply stated, you cannot choose a color. We also advise, if we do not get enough ashes, or ashes without enough carbon, we have to refuse the order as we do not add bought carbon or graphite, respectively.”

When asked about ‘internationally recognized’ gemologists privy to Algodanza’s service and process, Mr. Brimer offered: “We’ve worked years with Thomas Hainschwang, director of GGTL Laboratories in Geneva. Their laboratory is very well known and high-end from an equipment level. So much so that Thomas claims they are the best equipped laboratory in Europe. They have two branches; with the additional one in Liechtenstein.”

It was also interesting to hear that Mr. Brimer has spoken with Tom Chatham (he believes sometime in 2004). He mentioned that, at that time, Mr. Chatham stated that he wasn’t able to produce blue diamonds at all. He then went on to say: “As far as I know, they have very small blue diamonds by now.”

As for Mr. James being the ‘internationally recognized’ gemologist needed to grant his blessing on the service and process provided by Algordanza worldwide - it’s simply not required. The scientific professionals that know the company, and the continued business and trust of our clients is fine, thanks. Let’s be clear here though, should Mr. James be able to afford the trip to investigate and deliver the story properly, as he should have in the beginning, the door is open for him to do so. Additionally should Mr. James wish to meet Mr. Brimer for a chat in the U.S., he’ll be in Texas in June.

Mr. Brimer also feels it hasn’t been made very clear that Algordanza itself is not a U.S. based company. It is in fact Swiss based, with their main information on the web found at www.algordanza.org. Our Canadian partnership is in good company should you happen to observe the flags and corresponding links of the other countries shown there.

Some other thoughts from Mr. Brimer: “Mr. James claims to be an expert in growing diamonds. He may be in examining diamonds, but not in growing them. His statement that we cannot ‘turn dials to make a diamond’ is simply wrong. It just doesn’t work that way. This kind of manufacturing is not comparable to producing diamonds en mass. Of course the companies that produce mass quantities are using a different approach. They take the presses they have, fill them all and get some diamonds in the end. The failure rate is quite high, because actually controlling the process is not easy. This is why we had the new presses developed; to orchestrate a very stable, reliable, controlled process.”

Our last thought is this: If affiliated to an industry, we consider ourselves more in the funeral business than in diamond business. In addition we are a manufacturer, not an industry. Mr. Brimer and I have been as transparent as we can, and we've enjoyed the opportunity to post. We stand behind the service we offer.

Thank you for your update, Rene.

To correct you.....I have never claimed to be an expert in growing diamonds. This is your effort to side step the issue by attacking me personally, and to take the focus off of your lack of proof of your claims.

Once again.....you have NO PROOF. You offer no proof of your claims.

You try to debate what can be done regarding diamond synthesis. That is not the issue at all. But rather an attempt at side stepping the real issue here.

We maintain that you: (and please read this carefully for a change and answer to it)

1. You cannot offer any proof that any of the client's carbon actually goes into your diamonds.
2. You cannot offer any proof that you can allow consumers to simply dial up the size and color of a diamond.
3. You have offered no proof that your company in any way can actually account to clients that their loved one's ashes are being used anywhere.
4. You cannot justify the extremely high cost of your claimed product when other real lab created diamond companies actually DO produce diamonds.....for half of your cost.

Of all of your rhetoric and mis-quotes. you have not offered any proof of your claims.

This is not about diamond synthesis. Its about YOUR claimed diamond synthesis.


Just a lot of general rhetoric intended on side stepping the issues and to keep from actually answering our challenges.

In short, you continue with smoke and mirrors. It is getting tedious.

Robert

I agree Robert. No evodence to support the creation diamond industry's claims has been provided, only claims and retoric. I pose the following questions to which the ansers may shed some light on the process. First, exactly how much usable carbon is in the ashes? Second, how is the carbon extracted and purified? What quality control process has been designed and implemented to ensure that the carbon from an individual's ashes actually goes into a specific diamond? Who is responsible for the QC process? And, what independent organization, if any, monitors and can attest to the QC process? In short, how is the carbon from an individual's ashes tracked from ashes to diamond? Can the carbon isotopes from and individual's ashes be profiled, or fingerprinted, and compared to the isotope profile of the diamond? These are just some questions that come to mind, that I would like to see the industry answer, if they can. We need hard facts and evidence, not retoric and opinions.

"First, exactly how much usable carbon is in the ashes? Second, how is the carbon extracted and purified?"

I was wondering this myself. Is it even possible to extract and purify carbon from the carbonates in human bone?

I don't think it would happen now because this has gotten too personal but..why wouldn't you offer Robert James a chance to sign a confidentiallity agreement and then actually discuss your process?

Obviously this is an industry that is already making money, so it might be in your best interest just to have it stay the way it is. People are accepting what you say, and if you used to watch Superman squeeze that lump of coal and open his hand to find a finely faceted diamond...well then, he probably could have done the same thing with Gpa's ashes...

We here at ISG are Gemologists...we study gemstones and the where, what and how of them and cremation diamonds do not make sense. Sure would be nice if you could do it, I guess for the people that want them but just saying that it is so..does not make it so.

I was wondering, do people ever ask for proof? Other than a signed certificate saying that the diamond is what you say it is? And is there even a test that could prove it?

Thanks for letting me comment again.
Rosemary